Race and nationalism- serious discussion only - WiiTalk

sherlockisback · 30-04-2008, 02:30 PM

Folks,

With a U.S. election rife with race baiting and racial / gender issues, I've been spurred to begin a discussion with people from other countries about race issues and what they mean to you.

I've spent the election cycle wondering if the United States was ready to elect a black president. I ask this question with the understanding of deep-seeded racism that continues even as society progresses away from those types of attitudes. I know a large swath of this country remains entrenched in outdated attitudes, attitudes I feel that were outdated since the 1970s, mostly those in the older population, but some that have inherited such negativity.

However...

I also understand the feelings. The economy falters, jobs go overseas to "foreigners," a sue happy, contentious culture of victimization causes humans to fight against humans for every possible advantage, including those trumped up for no reason, where a person takes advantage of another innocent person. Its only human to harbor some negative attitudes toward those who are different, no matter the race, in times like these, and I think the attitude stems from that rather than past issues. However, even the Civil War in the United States has left unresolved issues, as there are times this country is divided by race and location.

My questions to you are: what do you think the race / cultural issues are in your country? How do you feel about the issues? Tell me about it, I'd like to hear. I'll join in the discussion as well, as can those who are in America that can perhaps shed some light on issues in another area of the country.

While any levity that can come from this post is appreciated and we should keep an open enough mind to laugh at ourselves from time to time, please keep the discussion civil. I don't want to start any of those issues here.

captainff · 30-04-2008, 02:41 PM

There's nothing like a gentle topic for a Wednesday afternoon when I'm supposed to be sorting out my P35 and VAT return .. .. .. and this is nothing like a gentle topic!!

I find that it's not just racism that can be divisive, but also attitudes to racism as well. People tend to be entrenched in whatever viewpoint they take and no amount of discussion can change that.

Personally the biggest thing that gets to me is the assumption that racism is a 'white' problem and not a 'universal' problem, in the same way that sexism is a 'male' problem and not a 'universal' problem.

Caesar · 30-04-2008, 02:45 PM

No doubt in Britain there's the natural hatred (although that might be too strong a word) for Muslims. Why? They're all terrorists. No really, they are according to some ignorant morons. What people don't seem to understand is that Muslim is a religion. Nothing more. Muslims are not evil terrorists hell-bent on the destruction of the western world. They are simply another people who believe different things (which is their right according to the western world that promotes freedom and tolerance) but are demonised because of the actions of their fanatics. Not all Muslims are terrorists, and not all terrorists are Muslim.

That said, I can see where the hatred (?) comes from. They (by they I mean foreigners) come over here complaining their country is too dangerous to live in, then try to have our country adapt its laws to suit them. I know very little on the subject so I can't go into more detail but there it is.

I heard that London is the (or one of the) most multi ethnic cities in the world. Well, that's what you get for having the world's largest empire. Deal with it.

/Pointless ramblings.

NazzWii · 30-04-2008, 02:50 PM

I think, racism will always be there along with a division in class and creed. Its human nature. Something to do with wanting to protect our genetic make-up + survival of the fittest etc.

Even within the same race, you can get a division in caste / class. Call me pessimistic but I think it'll always be there.

Thats why we have a 'democracy' so people of differing opinions can vote on how / what they like.

If the US gets a black President, all the African Americans will rejoice and bathe in the glory for the next 4 years at least. Same for women-folk if Hilary gets it. If its the White Male candidate gets to be President, nothing would have changed.

It'll go round in circles . You just have to live through it best you could I suppose.

nutter · 30-04-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NazzWii

Even within the same race, you can get a division in caste / class.

I agree with that

As caesar mentioned war and such, all wars have been started over religion in one way or another.... Racism will always be there, there is nothing anyone can do to stop that...

I could dive further into the topic but i know a few people can get easily offended if i don't word things right, and well, i'm not good at wording things right

biddenden_sue · 30-04-2008, 04:41 PM

Sherlock, here in the UK, we have many problems with racism. Personally I never take any notice of a person's colour or religion, preferring to get to know the person pefore I pass judgement. But unfortunately there are plenty of others who don't think that way.

I live in the south east corner of the country, 40 miles or so from the Channel Tunnel, which links us to France. We have a huge problem with illegal immigrants from the Far East (China in particular) and Eastern Europe hiding in trucks and trains to gain entry to our country. There seems to be thousands of illegal immigrants here now that are all working for cash and depriving the English of jobs - that is where some of the tension lies.

You can step onto any building site in the UK, and where once there were mainly Irishmen, now 50% minimum of the workers will be Polish - there are so many Poles here now that the Polish government are offering to pay them lump sums in cash to go home again as there are not enough skilled workers left over there to build etc any more!

Also at most superstore car parks, there are Poles offering to wash your car for a fiver while you do your shopping. I actually think this is a great service and regularly have my car washed while I pop into Tescos for my weekly shopping.

Racial conflict seems to erupt in the cities between people from the Caribbean, Africa, India and Pakistan, in particular. It seems almost a weekly occurence to hear that another black or Asian youth has been stabbed/shot and possibly killed in these gang wars.

Luckily it is not like that in my quiet sedate little village.

I have tried to relate to you where the racial tensions lie in this country, and wish to make it quite clear that these are not my personal views, before anyone jumps down my throat.

I think it is such a tragedy that we cannot live in harmony together, but I believe that ultimately mankind is incapable of peace, as there will always be leaders who want more and more power. And there will always be people who think their way of life is right and others are wrong. It is incredibly sad.

sherlockisback · 30-04-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainff

Personally the biggest thing that gets to me is the assumption that racism is a 'white' problem and not a 'universal' problem, in the same way that sexism is a 'male' problem and not a 'universal' problem.

That's for sure... ironically, racism is one issue that has no boundaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NazzWii

Even within the same race, you can get a division in caste / class. Call me pessimistic but I think it'll always be there.

Thats why we have a 'democracy' so people of differing opinions can vote on how / what they like.

I doubt we'll ever rid ourselves of these issues, and even if we do, other issues will rise up, so I definitely agree with you there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by biddenden_sue

Sherlock, here in the UK, we have many problems with racism. Personally I never take any notice of a person's colour or religion, preferring to get to know the person pefore I pass judgement. But unfortunately there are plenty of others who don't think that way.

I don't take notice either, but I know plenty of people that do, and its takes me back everytime someone brings up this issue to me. I know people that think if a black person moves in next door, they're a drug dealer. Sad truth.

I think conversations like this are key to really figuring out what everyone thinks and getting on the same page.

sherlockisback · 30-04-2008, 05:25 PM

And by the way, somebodies got to pick up the multi-quoteability slack while Pvt. Caboose (hoorah!) is out on moving assignments. Continue with your discussion, I like what you guys have said so far.

Joooe · 30-04-2008, 06:15 PM

It's important to remember that having concerns about (or even being against) mass immigration, is not the same as racism.

One problem is that certain parts of society, automatically denounce anyone who dares to mention immigration in a negative sense, as a 'racist'. This in itself, has a negative effect.

RYEB79 · 30-04-2008, 06:24 PM

I agree there Joooe. Iam not a racists as such, what i hate and would fight for till i died is that a whole generation is at the moment being forced out a jobs/careers by cheap foreign labour.
The problem lies with the absolute morons that run our so called great nation, as it is they and they alone over the past 20 years that have turned this once proud nation into the worlds hard luck story's dumping ground.