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Gaffer's Blog The older I get, the harder I Wii...

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Old 21-01-2008, 07:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Rubber Band A.I.

OK here we go... this will take a looooooooong time (you have been warned).


So you know I have Mario Kart DS as evidenced by my posts when I got it. I was quite chuffed when I managed to unlock the new title and ending screens:



It will be no surprise to learn that I LOVE this game. It's just very addictive and I think, one of the "must haves" for the DS.

Yet I do have complaints. My biggest complaint is the cheating AI. By cheating, I am of course referring to snaking (gaining a power boost after a slide) and Blue Shells.
Example....a very close race between me and 2 other CPU's:
I'm in the lead.......along comes a blue shell
I therefore lose the lead........no blue shell appears for the new leader
I gain the lead again.......within 1 corner another blue shell just for me
I therefore lose the lead........no blue shell appears for the leader
I gain the lead yet again.......lo and behold, another blue shell just for me
I lose the lead and have to regain it again....this time no more blue shells till end of race

....something that's happened quite a few times where I get the lead.
In fact, the record in one race for me alone has been 5 shells.


I'm not much of a snaker myself (in fact, I still can't do it ).....my problem is that it feels so "wrong". I simply have to race clean smooth racing lines...minimum tyre spin, maximum grip and judging entrances/apexes/exits from corner to a tee.
Despite my complete inability to snake, here is my current standings for each of the cups (I don't think I can improve on any of these):




So yes, I hate blue shells.....but there is an EVEN BIGGER problem with the whole Mario Kart franchise imo (and seeing as Mario Kart Wii is just around the corner, I would hope it's been fixed). Yes, the biggest problem with these is the textbook Rubber Band A.I.

Rubber Banding

It all kicked off big time with the advent of MK64. It had a crap method of making the game "challenging" by gifting the A.I. opponents with supersonic (?) speeds in order to allow them to catch up.

This was highlighted due to a well-known glitch on the track Wario Stadium. You see, if the player hit the track wall at the right place, jumping just as they collided, it was possible (with practise) to leap over the wall and get sub-8s laps. This made the AI go a little bit "mental". It artificially sped-up the closest points rivals to utterly unreachable speeds, trying in vain to catch you and make the race a challenge. Any person looking at the map could see this.

Now.. on paper this sounds like a good idea. It should make the game more challenging .....make even hardcore gamers come back for more......right?
...wrong!

The problem is, that it is assumed that all gamers want is a never ending challenge. After all, in any footie match you see, the one that goes to the line and is won in extra time is usually an exciting one isn't it?
The problem is, that when translated to games, it is as silly in reality as creating one with a never ending storyline.
The idea was simply that the gamer would ALWAYS relish the challenge, but the problem remained that we don't really relish the long winding road if we NEVER get to see a reward at the end.

Once we had successfully travelled the learning curve and spent sufficient time on the game (and hopefully a well balanced game treads the correct path between long enough campaign to getting very very bored) then we wanted to KICK THE CRAP OUT OF THE GAME and win by a country mile.......to truly OWN it. THIS was the reward we were all promised when setting out on that long journey beginning with the game tutorial after we first opened the packaging.
After all, we had played for hours, learned every position of every power-up, every coin and every "perfect" racing line. We'd even gone to the trouble of checking the "walkthroughs" to ensure we hadn't missed anything out.
Now the sh1tting A.I. comes along, and BLATANTLY cheats their way to the finish line. Some reward that is --- Great one there .

...and of course, it works both ways. Not only does Rubber Banding ensure that people behind you speed up when you get ahead, but it also ensures that when you fall behind they slow down!
What kind of a challenge is that? What did they think I would feel when (after the 7th Blue Shell, falling off the course, and ending up 8th) I would easily saunter over to challenge for the lead again without so much as a "Thank you"?
For the devs information, NO it does not give a sense of "satisfaction" in a game when I feel I gained 7 places so easily......in fact, it feels almost as though I've somehow cheated.


Yet such is the function of Rubber Band A.I. ......opponents speed up when behind you (thus making it difficult to create a decent lead) and slow down when in front of you (thus making it too easy). Hence the term - it's as though you're connected to each other via a rubber band.....the larger the gap, the harder the game tries to close that gap by "cheating" (for want of a better word).

Wikipaedia even has a page dedicated to this poor programming "art".


So my question (to quote elsewhere) really boils down to this:
  • Do you want to be challenged all the time? Do you want to fight tooth and nail for every single victory..................................forever?
  • Or, once you have learned, sweated, cursed and blagged your way to the top, do you want to beat the 7 bells out of the AI, cruising to victory, rocketing over the line, and flicking Vs at the opposition?

Now despite a lot of poor reviews, I seem to remember Wipeout Fusion for the PS2 being brilliant in this respect. No, the SAME 2 closest rivals were NOT always 2nd and 3rd, no the super missiles that seek you out were not plentiful when you were winning yet spar5e when you were not, and most importantly, NO it didn't have massive and obvious Rubber Band A.I.
I remember completing and unlocking all ships and tracks and continuing to play to always try to get the longest lead......in fact, I had a sense of "achievement" in having completed the game without either overwhelming help or hindrance from the computer. Overall I felt that it was a great game (I mention Wipeout as I feel the similarities (racing with weapons) means it's closer to MK than to F-Zero in many respects).

Let's just hope that Mario Kart Wii learns more from Wipeout than it does from Mario Kart DS, and these shortcomings are remedied before release.




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Old 21-01-2008, 08:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That always annoyed me in the original Mario kart. I always chose to be toad and daisy and donkey kong ALWAYS annoyed me. it didn't matter if I hit the princess with 3 red shells, she would still work her way back up through the race within seconds.

Childhood moan over


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Old 21-01-2008, 08:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I never even realised that this "rubber banding" existed . Though its been a really longbtime since I played MK64 and in fact on the N64 it was DiddyKong Racing I spent most of my time on . But that was virtually all multiplayer and am I right in assuming that "rubber banding" is AI exclusive ?

More recently I've played the snot out of DoubleDash but never realised this Rubber Banding issue . Is it as prevailent in DD ?

But you're right though .... If you win a race , you want to win it because you earnt it , not because the game let you . And visa versa ... if you have been concentrating to the point of your eyes bleeding just to get a good lead , you want to be justly rewarded for it .

MKWii will be amazing though I am completely confident ! ...... *prays*



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Old 21-01-2008, 08:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well, ever since MK64 it's been worse in the series.
The best way to see is to check whether at the end of the race, everyone is pretty bunched up in a group (whereas in a "proper" race, everyone is strung out....sometimes even getting lapped).

Also, within a 4 race "cup".....do the same 2 A.I.'s always get 2nd and 3rd? - a good indicator of RB IME.

In multiplayer it mainly extends to only ever giving the stragglers golden stars/bullet bills/golden mushrooms etc etc, whereas the front runners mainly get given crappy "? cubes"/single banana skins.....

.....the computers way of getting you to slow down and them to catch up :(



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Old 22-01-2008, 09:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This is why I dislike the Mario Kart series (despite the fact that I own MKDS...and MK64...and will probably buy the Wii version.)it makes it very frustrating for me, especially as I am not very good at racing games.
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Originally Posted by Gaffer View Post
Also, within a 4 race "cup".....do the same 2 A.I.'s always get 2nd and 3rd? - a good indicator of RB IME.
That is one of the most annoying points of the DS version, it means you have to come top three all the time and top place for the majority of those races.

As you pointed out in your article, we gamers like a challenge, but we hate cheating. (Unless it's us that's cheating. )

Nice article.
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Old 22-01-2008, 11:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It is very annoying. My most annoying computer trick was on IGI 2 on the PC. I loved the first one and when playing the second I used to like using the sniper rifle. Take out the mob coming from the shed, move in and make sure the shed is clear only to have more pile out behind you when you think things are clear.


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Old 22-01-2008, 11:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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i hate this on MKDS, especially on the 150CC, usually on any other racing game you would be flying ahead in the lead
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Old 22-01-2008, 03:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I see what you mean about the 'skating' thing - I can totally relate as I somehow can't 'skate', even if I could, I wouldn't use it due to the game being far too easy...

My biggest moan aslo, is the 'blue shell' annoyance, the 8th racer using it for no reason, only to disadvantage the 2nd place racer - whilst not getting them any closer to 7th or 8th place.

But! I think how the 1st, 2nd and 3rd people ending up at the top all the time is quite a good idea. Although it seems repetitive and unrealistic (which the game is anyway) it still adds to the competition in the final few rounds, making every place crucial!

I know what you mean about 'challenging games'. Personally I think making the game easy is a good option as games can still be easy and fun. Fun is the way forward!




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Old 22-01-2008, 04:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Good thread


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Old 22-01-2008, 04:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Its a shame that something like this can start to be a real annoyance after a while - especially with the quality of the battle games! I didn't realise there was such a thing about it though - I just found it niggling and stopped playing.



Cheers Gaffer!
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